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Post by Vizor on Nov 15, 2005 20:09:34 GMT -5
Do you believe this drug should be legalized? It's pretty much obvious that MJ is no more harmfull then alcahol or cigg., so why make them legal and not MJ?
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Post by Eyesore on Nov 17, 2005 11:52:52 GMT -5
ciggarettes are by far the most harmful of the three, the reason it's legal is because the government makes money off of it.
Alcohol and marijuana are two substances that are very comparable. Usually this raises the question of why one is legal and not the other...
...well, personally I think that if one is legal, the other should be illegal because the effects of combining the two are easily fatal. If you get alcohol poisoning while you're stoned, you're probably going to die because of the ingredient in marijuana that keeps you from vomiting.
Now not being an expert on either since I rarely ever get drunk and I've never taken marijuana, I can't really say which one is prefered. However, I do know that marijuana smells like shit. And if I were to vote for one, either alcohol or marijuana being illegal, I'd go for marijuana because I don't want to be at a party that smells like shit. This is regardless of the fact that i'm allergic to it, also, since it does undeniably smell bad.
I guess you could make hte argument that maybe cars should be illegalized if alcohol is legal since combining those two is stupid also... that's the only point I can't really refute. I just say, why make more lethal combinations (marijuana/alcohol, alcohol/driving, marijuana/driving (for some people)) when we already have enough. I say marijuana shouldn't be LEGAL, but the government shouldnt pretend like they give so much of a shit about it. Hardly anyone ever gets arrested for trafficking marijuana.. the big problem we have is kids nowadays taking ecstacy and acid and shit. Taking a hard drug is a great way to ruin your life I'd say.
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Post by Vizor on Nov 17, 2005 15:49:14 GMT -5
I personally think it should be legalized. I believe history is repeating itself, like alcahol was prhibited before. This gave a large some of income do gangs and other mobs... when the government legalized alcahol it took a lot of power away from all the mobs and stuff. This in turned lowerd violence since dealing with your friendly SAQ is bit nicer then your average mobster. I also think it's important to legalize it because it gives a chance for the government to keep tabs on this. This way people wouldn't have to worry about getting something that is laced and be potentialy deadly. With that though, I believe should come other laws such as with alchaol (Ie. such as not being able to drive under the influance).
MJ does not stop you from puking when you're drunk I've seen many people just get simply sick if they combine to much of the two. Just really sick, though maybe they just drank a lot...either way they managed to puke out just fine. Combining the two does not creat health hazards (besides imparing you more). The main active ingrediant in MJ as you all know is THC, which stands for delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol or something like that. This impares the person by blocking receptors through out the nervous system and brain. THC does not leave any long term effects and blah blah blah. Well you can get mentally addicted to it, though not physicaly.
All the really bad effects come from all the other things in the MJ itself which consists of over 60 different chemicals natrualy. The reason adds themselves make MJ look so much worst for you, is nobody takes into account that a Cigg has a filter, someone smoking MJ does not. Though I'm not saying MJ is good for the body or dosn't do anything at all, anyone who says that is a flat out lier. It does have a few effects though, one of which is it can cause lung cancer like cigg (go figure). MJ can also lower sperm count in guys and change a females menistral cycle. If you have heart problems the first minute of your high your heart rate will increase, which causes heart failiares for people at risk to increse about 150%.
Overall MJ seems to have less effects then ciggs and equel to about alcahol just in different ways.
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Post by Erok on Nov 26, 2005 18:28:00 GMT -5
Weed does have less effects on you then cigarettes but both are as dangerous because weed has effects that arn't all known. Aparetly it can make you sterile, then again apparently cigs give you lung cancer. Weed kills brain cells and the ones killed take longer to grow back then usual and cigs kills them at the same rate they grow, so it's not much of a loss there. The two balance out in bad thigns.
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Post by Vizor on Dec 1, 2005 23:22:03 GMT -5
Weed does cause lung cancer too, it actually has 3 times the carcenougens as a normal cigg. Again that's due to lack of proper filter and such in my opinion.
Weed does NOT kill brain cells, and has not found to have any long term effects. (besides the usual, cancer, addiction..basicly same as cigs). What gets you high is the THC, which blacks receptors making your reaction time slower. After the high the THC is stored in your fat for a short to long period of time. Light smokers will have it all out within less then a week. An avreage smoker or hevier will take about 21 - 30 days. Some heavy smokers can take UP to 90 days to get it out of their system fully. The time the THC sits there seems to be doing NOTHING of harm. They don't know all the effects...well they know how you are effected by it...a lot like ciggs.
The only thing that you will die from is cancer or well yea cancer. Yes it can lower your sperm count, though no cases of being sterile. It can also change a womens menistral cycle...so don't smoke if your pregnat. That's about it really...
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Post by Eyesore on Dec 7, 2005 6:48:41 GMT -5
"combining the two does not creat health hazards"
Actually, this is wrong. It's situational really... sometimes it will, sometimes it won't. If you want to combine them to test it out THEN YOU'RE A FUCKING IDIOT. I hate when people test something that isn't guaranteed to happena nd when it doesn't they try to say it can never happen. Like smokers who haven't gotten lung cancer trying to tell me there's no health detriments to smoking because they have yet to contract any!
Marijuana may not kill brain cells, but it can be detrimental to your short term memory over time. Again Vizor, you're being a nitpicky moron if you think that the fact that it doesn't kill braincells is revelant when you compare it to the other harmful effects.
I agree with a lot of your other points but just had to point that out
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Post by Vizor on Dec 7, 2005 15:11:02 GMT -5
The only reason I brought up the braincells argument was because someone said that it does. In which case, I didn't bring up the argument...Erok did. Though I guess pointing out the facts appears to make someone a "nitpicky moron". If someone brought up an argument that was false you would just agree with it. I'm only here to state facts.
Short term memory is onyl effected as long as the THC (delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) remains in your system. Once it's out you're fully back to normal. Unless you smoked everyday or something like a normal smoker for cigg habbits over many years, in which case when you stopped you'd still have cancer or something.
Man I hate having all these facts...it makes me such a moron. Eyesore do me a favor and learn some common respect in a debate. I have yet to say anthing againts you yet you call me a moron for correcting someones argument. I'm sorry so when you tell someone the've misunderstood something it makes you a moron. It seems you're trying to correct me too...does that make you a moron also? The point being it's a debate..not a public flame thread...learn some manners.
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Post by Eyesore on Dec 7, 2005 16:03:09 GMT -5
I know my manners, I just choose not to use them
Why should I care about stupid social proprieties over the internet anyways? I'm pissed off that you druggies aren't getting it straight.
Whether or not he brought it up first, it doesn't MATTER than marijuana kills braincells! Why even argue against it? It's such a worthless point.
Secondly, a lot of people DO smoke marijuana every day of their lives! These are the people I'm talking about. I'm not saying that the occasional drug user is going to develop alzheimers, again you're being nitpicky! In fact... I think I even said "it can be detrimental to your short term memory /over time/"!
Wow you sure are a cunning linguist, you really twisted my argument around there! See now I wasn't ACTUALLY calling you a moron for all the reasons I postulated, I really meant that correcting people makes you stupid! Great fucking job sherlock!
Oh, and another point against this stupidity:
"MJ does not stop you from puking when you're drunk I've seen many people just get simply sick if they combine to much of the two. Just really sick, though maybe they just drank a lot...either way they managed to puke out just fine. Combining the two does not creat health hazards"
I dropped my CD player in the snow this morning because I was being careless. Then, after testing it it still worked! Does that mean I shouldn't advise myself against dropping it in the snow from now on since nothing happened the first time? Of course not! So just because you saw someone STUPIDLY mix alcohol and marijuana and turn out fine (your definition of "fine" being a complete mess of temporarily unbearable sickness, of course) doesn't mean they won't get fucked over the next time!
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Post by Vizor on Dec 7, 2005 16:34:53 GMT -5
I never said they won't get fucked over. I just said it dosn't stop you from puking. There's a difference there. That phrase was a response to someone who said that MJ stops you from throwing up when your drunk. If anything it just makes you sick and well even less aware of your souroundings.
Again you are right, it is stupid to base something on something one person has done once. That's why we do what is called research on our arguments so we know what we're talking about and don't just use arguments that you could make up on the spot. Every point I have brought up has been and can be backed up threw futher means of the scientific community. If you're saying that I'm just takling things I've seen and posting it well I'm not, I've actually researched what I've said.
I apologize for defending myself in the wrong manner, either way it's a debate. Though apparently you can't seem to have one polite manner? Unless you have an uncontrtolable hate for me, in which you have to say something bad about me everytime. Oh and thanks for calling me a druggy, I'm sure the rest of those doctors and stuff didn't know what they where talking about either...must be all that Advil and stuff going to their head. Shame I was hopping they knew what they where talking about.
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Post by Eyesore on Dec 7, 2005 16:42:16 GMT -5
Researchers came up with a lot of the points I made too, also, bear in mind that having alcohol poisoning and not being able to throw up generally constitutes being FUCKED OVER.
Obviously arguing about drugs is about as two sides as you can get and nothing is for sure, but what is for sure is that htere is a chemical in the marijuana plant, or a joint, or whatever that... sigh... HELPS in preventing one from throwing up. Therefore it is possible, by scenarios which I have illustrated for you, to be extremely fucked over and that is why marijuana and alcohol is considered a lethal combination.
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Post by Vizor on Dec 7, 2005 16:51:34 GMT -5
It's also found that in majority of the cases, MJ seems to of HELPED people puke insted of keeping it in. Though those stats where not done by chemically checking all vital signs....blah blah..this was done just by a simple manner of stats.
There are also many other lethal combinations. Drinking and Driving is a lethal combination...why don't we ban alcahol to. People think that if we legalize it everyones going to go extream with smoking and drinking. Though the truth is, it's easy to acess. I mean look at our school for example. Alcahol can kill you from to much alcahol in your system... THC cannot kill you in large amount. Or at least any ammounts people have yet to manage to get too. I'm just saying there are many lethal combinations you can make, yes if you legalize MJ it puts another one on the market. Yet is it something we don't ALREADY worry about. If we legalize it will do nothing but LOWER our worries.
If you legalize, you take the buissness from the drug lords, you are able to moderate MJ and make sure it's not being laced with anything ect...
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Post by Eyesore on Dec 7, 2005 16:56:53 GMT -5
Maybe alcohol is just easier to produce and it's better for the economy? I don't really know but there's obviously a profit related (immoral I agree, but still economical) reason for legalizing alcohol and not marijuana. It's gonna get legalized eventually anyway... the capitol of Denver has already legalized it, and many others will follow suit.
I see what you're saying but you have to realize politicians aren't completely stupid, they make what they believe to be the most widely appeasing political and economical choice... that's capitalism for you. A lot of politicians probably agree with you and other drug-legalization enthusiasts... it's all about appeasing the crowd.
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Post by Vizor on Dec 7, 2005 17:07:25 GMT -5
Yea I agree. The major problem is everyones been taught that MJ is really bad for you. All the commercials (mind you, you get the with ciggs a lot too and even alcahol to think of it), and esspecially from parents. When you're young it's always beaten into your head that it's real bad. They say it's the pathway drug into worst things and they say that's what gets parents and stuff so worried. (crystal meth, heroin, acid ect...)
Though in my opinion the only reason it seems like a pathway drug is because who deals it. Chances are your average MJ dealer isnt exactly just a MJ dealer. I'm sure you keep on doing that after a bit, that's when they start offering you more things, more profitable things...
If they legalized it the best thing is it would stop that (or at least slow it down greatly) assuming your average dept. dosn't want to get you hooked on other profit making illgal drugs.
PS: On which one is esier to producce -Apparently MJ is really easy...since it's a weed it practacly grows itself. If you could get mass production like grapes for wine refinary. Though it may be harder when it comes to actually trying to harvest it...though I can't speak on their behalf for that because I really don't know to much in that dept.
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Post by JackInJill on Dec 7, 2005 20:25:11 GMT -5
(delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol) This has no relevance to your little debate but Vizor, that made my day. You get a cookie sometime... when my oven gets un-broke
Also, don't ask why it made my day, I'm odd, Idon't know why.
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Post by Vizor on Dec 7, 2005 22:13:06 GMT -5
delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol is THC, the active chemical which gets someone high. If I were to try and argue the point on weather MJ is dangerous or not, I need to explain WHY. A point is useless if I have nothing to back it up with. Saying THC has nothing to do with a legalization of MJ is like saying legalizing beer has nothing to do with the alcahol content. The reason beer and spirits where banned was because of what the acahol did to a person, in this case MJ is banned because of what THC does to a person. If I can't explain why THC is not dangerous then how can I prove any valid points on why it shold be legalized. Yes I can still argue it's economic value and such, though who would want to legalize a drug they don't know about or may think could be very harmfull. Since this is a debate I'm doing my best to show the other side why they should agree, though you can't make someone else agree if they don't even understand the full princible. It's like trying to pick a car to buy if you know nothing about it. All I'm doing is offering all the specs so the person chosing a side on the debate can pick the one they like best...opose to having to make a guess. Or something based on previous asumptions. PS: I hope your oven gets fixed very fast, so you can make lots of cookies
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