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Post by Ethan Hawkeye on Dec 30, 2004 3:16:12 GMT -5
This calls for a new debate... Communism. There are pros to this system yes, but it overall doesn't work. Am I right or am I right, I'm willing to take on anyone at this.(Though I'll lose because I suck at debating, but that's not the point!)
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Izar
Beginner
Demon Hunter
Posts: 30
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Post by Izar on Mar 12, 2005 0:23:42 GMT -5
I'll agree with you. At first glance, it looks nice, everyone is equal, everyone is the country... but it ultimately fails...
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Post by Eyesore on Mar 12, 2005 8:08:31 GMT -5
A very wise man once said something to this effect:
"Communism is like dungeons and dragons: it works well on paper, but if you tried fighting a dragon in real life with a dice you would lose."
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Post by breakdancingrobot on Mar 12, 2005 12:05:52 GMT -5
Wow, Eyesore, looks like you actually do get stuff out of MM.
Nobody's going to debate you on communism. If they do, they'll get destroyed. Well, as destroyed as one can get in a debate.
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Post by functionman on Aug 8, 2005 0:42:47 GMT -5
Communism Can be a good system... You just have to apply it in the right way. It could work, but it would have to be done rightly.
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Post by Vizor on Aug 8, 2005 20:01:30 GMT -5
It's a good system if all you care about is the present. Having a communist society destroys any reason for self improvement. Why work hard when the guy who does jack all is getting the same thing. Why should I stand out of society and help out when if I hide and clean garbage for the same thing.
Communism no matter how nice it sounds for the present moment, will ruin the future without question.
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Post by functionman on Aug 11, 2005 12:25:50 GMT -5
Hey, the future is pretty screwed anyway, all the communists say is that they want everybody to be equally screwed ;D
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Post by Vizor on Aug 11, 2005 16:43:05 GMT -5
But where's the fun in that...now you can't shove it anyones face that you're less screwed then them.
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Post by functionman on Aug 23, 2005 11:15:43 GMT -5
Thats a reason why i'm not a communist.
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Post by ryuujin on Sept 10, 2005 18:10:01 GMT -5
"Mankind is divided into rich and poor, into property owners and exploited and to abstract oneself from this fundamental division and from the antagonism between poor and rich means abstracting oneself from fundamental facts. "
-Joeseph Stalin
Before during into this debate my honorable judges and fellow RM2K3ers I would like to begin by describing accuratly what Communism is:
"Communism is a form of society where class society do not exist. It has been a major force in world politics since the early 20th century. Marxism is by many associated with The Communist Manifesto of Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels, according to which the capitalist profit-based system of private ownership is replaced by a communist society in which the means of production are communally owned. This process, initiated by the revolutionary overthrow of the bourgeoisie (see Marxism), passes through a transitional period marked by the preparatory stage of socialism (see Leninism)."
The question of whether Communism can work has never been trully tested in any of the former Warsaw Pact countries or for that matter in the former Soviet Union or in the People's Republic of China. In Soviet Russia it was simply a State Monopoly on Capitalism with a socialist-like welfare system, China originally was the same until Premier Deng Xiapeng succeeded Zhao En Lai and introduced Market Oriented Capitalism into the system and opened up China to various social and economic reforms.
Thus my opening statement shall be thus: Communism can work because a Communist system is a utopia reconizing the basic altruism in humanity, ending opression for the workers and allowing everyone to live happy and prosperous lives where they work not because they are forced to (because of circumstance) but because they want to work for the betterment of society as a whole. And once Capitalism collapses and the revolution comes and brings (eventually) true communism humanity will have reached its eventual destiny.
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Post by Eyesore on Sept 10, 2005 19:45:03 GMT -5
No.
you can't change human instinct. A sizeable portion of society would need to work because it wants to. This is impossible.
See now sayimng that "communism is unrealistic BUT IT'S THE PERFECT SYSTEM" doesn't make you wise. A world without a whole bunch of negative human instincts would be awesome too, but it just doesn't work that way. You aren't enlightened because you know that something impossible might work for the better of humanity...
Also, China's culture is the only one whose youth is seriously born with the mentality that its piss is made of wine. China may be a haven of so-called productivity, but its populus will always be a host of social failures
EDIT: Ah, and China's feeble GDP/capita is about one sixth of ours. Economic prosperity my ass
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Post by ryuujin on Sept 10, 2005 20:45:13 GMT -5
In China you have a free education up to college where competition takes over, a citizen of the PRC can go into any field he/she wishes, China is making BILLIONS of dollars off of the west in weapons, toys, electronics, etc. Which is reinvested into it's infastructure and into economic aid for the countryside.
Dozens of nations invest into China's cheap labour market if it wasn't for China your 2$ toy would be 40$. China has a theotetical middle class of 300,000,000 People which is greater then the population of the United States.
They have GNP of greater then Seven TRILLION dollars making it second place going for first since they have the worlds fastest growing economy in the world, the PRC has a military of 2.3 Million soldiers and will be within a decade on par with the United States and in 20 years will have ecplised the US in living standards, economic strength, and military strength.
China has one of the best hardware industries in the world and half of the people graduating from American colleges are Chinese Nationals, China also managed to change its force structure to a Army Group/Brigade structure compared to the earlier Division Oriented format.
I'ld appreciate it if you avoided Ad hominen attacks in the future and debated with a little more reason.
sources:
CIA world Factbook Wikipedia The rise and fall of the great powers: 1500-2000 Politics and war: from Philip the II to Hitler
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Post by JackInJill on Sept 11, 2005 17:14:42 GMT -5
Hitler's Hot.
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Post by Eyesore on Sept 11, 2005 17:52:16 GMT -5
I'll use all the fucking ad hominem attacks I want you trendy, attention-pandering, pseudo-edgy lard ass.
A country with a population of 50 trillion billion million people would be an economic disaster even if its GDP were as high as the U.S.'s, and do you know why? Are you blind? Is it so hard to understand? It's all about fucking ratios! GDP means jack shit, GDP per capita* is the only measurement of economic prosperity that vaguely possesses anything in the way of accuracy you dipshit.
Look, if someone says "naziism is bad for all the [insert right reasons]" and goes back in time and instead says "naziism is bad for all the [insert right reasons] and you're a fag", the premise of his argument is the same and his thesis is still right. Stop trying to dissect my words into "ad hominems" and little frivolous intricacies of arguing. You, and China collectively, both lose.
*GDP/Capita = Gross Domestic Product divided by a country's population.
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Post by Ethan Hawkeye on Sept 12, 2005 14:01:28 GMT -5
Oh wow, I leave for a couple of days and come back to a showdown.
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